Birty Dastards Jeep Club
Tech Forum => Workshop => Topic started by: jay140285 on October 02, 2014, 08:41:50 AM
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Morning Fellow Birties,
As some of you may have heard at Cheapfest the ZJ (1998) alarm going off at some ungodly hour on the Saturday night, it then had several episodes on the Sunday with the Alarm going off especially around the sheepdip!
It has done it when the car battery has gone low in the past but disconnecting the battery shut it up.
At CF disconnecting the battery had no effect on the alarm, it just kept going off.
In the end I cut the 4 black wires to the sounder box and all was quiet, but the Jeep didnt then start.
So cue trailering it home and parking on the drive.
Ted then kindly sent me a new replacement sounder, I have stripped the dash to reveal the colour coding of the wires and re connected up the new alarm sounder.
Jeep still doesnt start. it doesnt even attempt to turn over. Previously I have to press the unlock button on the alarm fob and start the Jeep within 30seconds. The symptom I have now is that of if I dont press the fob unlock button.
BigJeepZJ (Dave) is coming round on Sunday to have a tinker, but ahead of that has anyone got any idea's for us to try.
Need to get it sorted as with the current work situation I may need to use the ZJ daily soon.
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Alarm systems depend on certain level of voltage to keep quiet, I think by default if the supply drops below around 9v the bloody sounder cranks up just incase someone has cut the power supply, the alarm itself will have its own built in backup so pulling the leads off the battery generally wont help, now I maybe wrong with this but as far as I understand it the alarm is coded into the pcm with the jeep stealer programming box thingy (technical term) and as you have torn out the alarm, has disabled starting, try stabbing the alarm horn itself to sminky pieces so it dont sound, then reconnect the box, it may start or at least crank over, gotta be worth a try innit :icon_biggrin:
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If your suggesting stabbing the original alarm sounder to death and re installing - well in my pissed off ness I threw it on the fire on the Sunday afternoon!!!!
So the replacement I have is brand new, but not originally off MY Jeep.
Would this be the potential problem? Non original sounder???
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It's not coded, you just have to connect it properly.
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That's great, is connected with the wires matching.
Hummmm maybe I will try a jump off the wk at the same time
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Dave came over yesterday and take a look.
Door control modules ok
Chrysler boxes ok
So looking like the may and Schofield uk fit is at fault.
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They still be trading afaik.
Might be worth a google.
Does it crank over?
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No it doesnt crank,
I have to press the unlock button the the key fob and start within 30seconds.
The symptoms I have as as if I hadnt pressed the unlock button and started in time.
Dave Checked the ECU was working, The doors all lock / unlock as the Door module is ok.
Are the May & Schofield boxes interchangeable? Can I get one off a breaker?
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Immobiliser not "talking to jeep"
Gauges coming on like they should?If not pull cluster and try cleaning contacts.
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Everything is working like it would normally do.
Just no crank.
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M+S system has starter cut on it so it'sThatcham approved or some such bollocks.
Speak to Del Lloyd on 01256 306800 he should be able to help.
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Cheers mate,
I will give him a call and see if we can bottom this out.
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If you go under the passenger side dash you will find the 2 wires spliced into the starter circuit. if you reinstate them it will crank. If it still wont run, you can, of course remove the whole thing from a ZG.
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Mike if you could possibly pm me more details on said procedure it would be appreciated
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Haven't touched one for 10 years so a bit vague but... Find the starter cut wire under the passenger side as previously described and reinstate it. Make sure it now cranks. Then locate the body control module and May and Scumfield unit on the drivers side. Unplug the jumper harness from the BCM and plug in the original harness currently plugged into the M&S unit. Try it, see if it runs. If it does, remove all the unwanted crap.
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Cool nice one Mike
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Cool nice one Mike
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How about taking a few photos as you go along Jay? Bit of a "How to" :icon_winkle:
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I am sure that can be arranged,
I will do a write up with pics etc.
Obviously with the last point been - It now starts lol.
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Once you find the routing its surprising how simple some alarms are
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Once you find the routing its surprising how simple some alarms are
Most the dash is currently in the boot or on the back seat so I can see all the wires lol.
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some of the alarms i have seen in the past all have the same colour wires, the daft thing is they are then spliced into the car loom which is coloured.
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Fixed, completely removed the May and Schofield set up. Didn't need to remove the passenger side of dash to get to starter wires. I will do a write up with photos etc tomorrow. If it's worked on my ZJ I cannot see why it wouldnt work on others.
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Well done on the fix :greggmo:
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Cool
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Nice one spunky :icon_super: :icon_super: :icon_super:
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Can you send me the info so I can try it on the XJ I have floating around .
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Good work Jay
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Will do Ted, will try and do my write up in a moment
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Hi Jay,
did you do a write up on the removal of the may & scofield alarm? I have a 96 ZJ 4.0. All of the write ups I have found so far rely on defeating the m&s unit with a DEI455T bypass module (which I do have) just in case.
If I could remove the m&s unit all together, that would be great.
Thanks in anticipation.
Graham.
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Hi
Basically you unplug the m&S box and jumper cables and plug the original loom into the Chrysler box. both box's are behind the light switch.
Then trace where the there wires from the jumper cable go and spice the original loom back together.
the DEI455T is normally for bypassing the chrsler box.
Hope that helps
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Thanks for the reply. Yes, that helps.
I have found the m&s unit with several plugs going into it so will work through it and see what happens.
This sounds so much simpler than all the write ups on the US forums piggybacking the 455 module off the m&s unit.
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Ignore anything you find on US forums. The M+S module is UK specific, retro fitted at the docks in Sheerness.
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Top result. :icon_super:
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Yep the M&S unit is the crap shit box that jeep UK decided to inflict on the UK. It immobilises the jeep by draining you battery within a week :banghead: :banghead:
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Somewhere on here there should be pics etc of that I did.
I’ll try and look later
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Ok, gently removing the m&s loom and it’s also tied directly into the back of the plug on the steering column. Any ideas?
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Looks like the loom also extends into drivers door, piggybacking the lock loom.
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Ok, found where it ties into the original loom behind the passenger glove box.
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Ok, possibly the happiest man alive.
ITS ALIVE :ace:
Dashboard in bits and wires everywhere but it runs.
Immobiliser appears to arm after 30 second s or so and then it only runs for a couple of seconds but hit the unlock on the fob, the immobiliser light goes out and she runs.
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thats great new glad to help
:ace: :ace:
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Good work :greggmo:
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Can't help but admire your patience with this problem...others may well have given up when faced with the coloured spaghetti, but you didn't! Well done
:icon_super:
The help is what makes this a great forum.
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Well done, that’s how mine was with the 30seconds.
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One hopefully last question on this.
So, Jeep unlocks with the fob. One press for drivers door and two for all doors.....but the factory jeep immobiliser only disarms if I hit the unlock button again on the fob with a door open.
I had noticed that the interior lights are not coming on when the jeep is unlocked (before you open the door). I’m assuming they should. They go off when the jeep is locked on the fob.
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So, common sense kicking in here. Reading the manual, the interior lights should come on when the ZJ is remotely unlocked, before a door is opened. I’m guessing that the immobiliser needs to see a voltage drop at the same time as receiving the signal from the fob.
So....why are my interior lights not coming on until I open a door?
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if you've removed the May and Schofield unit, it shouldn't have an immobiliser anymore unless someone has installed something else.
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Hi Mike. It’s still got what appears to be a factory immobiliser. Little plastic unit on the dash which flashes when armed. Unless it’s disarmed, the Jeep will only run for a couple of seconds. The May & Scofield unit is on the shelf in the garage.
Is there more I should have taken out?
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This is the light.
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Ok. Getting my head around this a bit more. So if I switch the interior lights on manually and then lock the Jeep, and then unlock it, the immobiliser turns off correctly with the fob first time.
It appears to want to see the interior lights come on as part of the sequence to disarm the immobiliser. So the question is why are my interior lights not coming on on remote unlock....
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had a similar problem it was the light switch module had a fault
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What and where is this light switch module you speak of??
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the head light switch :greggmo:
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Doh!!! :banghead:
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Ok, so next question.....does anyone have a spare one kicking about that I could try?
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Quite a lot of info regarding that switch to be found online....just Google Jeep ZJ headlight switch.
Might help you.