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Author Topic: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire  (Read 5237 times)

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thazlett

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Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« on: March 31, 2014, 11:34:30 AM »

Only my second post I believe and unfortunately it's one asking for some help  :icon_redface:

Had my 3.1 since the end of January. Been pretty good up until now.

Yesterday I got in the Jeep to drive to mums for mothers day. It started, surged to 2000rpm for about a second (if that) and then cut out. Since then all it does is crank and does not fire (And drains the battery  :icon_rolleyes:)

Due to lack of time I have only been able to do some short research this morning on what it could be. I'm no stranger to diesels, I have kept my Pajero 2.8 on the road for the last few years, so i'm quite handy. My first instinct was, no fuel. So i'm going to explorer the fuel lines, injectors and so on when time allows.

Possible causes I can think of are;

-No fuel getting to the injectors for some reason? - Is the pump electronically managed?
-A friend of mine who is also on here, (not sure of his username) suggested it could be the crank position sensor, does this engine have one?
-Glow plugs not powered - Unlikely as it started and died.

So, does any one have any other avenues that I could explore? Perhaps some common things to check? I noticed from a search on here that there is a cap of some sort on the rear injector that rots and lets air in? - Will check that too.


Also, does anybody know where I can get a manual for this engine?

Here is a picture of my Jeep being towed by my Pajero, can't have that can we! :003:


Here is my WJ/WG
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Jonny Jeep

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2014, 08:06:29 PM »

Click my name on the left and find the send PM link. PM your email and I'll send you a copy of the engine manual.
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2014, 09:35:24 PM »

Thank you Jonny. Very helpful


Does any body know if the 3.1 has a crankshaft position sensor?

I did some checking this evening:

-Fuel is present in the lines, I bled it also - wasn't needed.
-Removed the feed from injector one, fuel appears to be sat in the injector. I cranked it in this state, did not hear any hissing or see any fuel coming out of the feed.
-I hot wired the stop solenoid, I heard it click. Tried to start, no joy - no hissing from the loose feed either.

Did not see a CPS but did not look especially hard.

Just to be thorough checked the glow plugs, they are being powered.

I'm not really sure where to look next apart from the CPS. I'm not even sure if the 3.1 has one. No sign of replacements on ebay or anything for the 3.1.
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carljh

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 02:43:10 AM »

I think its called a engine speed sensor
part number 56041080AB
about $40
It lives on the adapter plate at the top behind the turbo
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 09:25:35 PM »

Thanks, it turns out I have a bigger problem...... I suspect something is flying around in the bell housing and has not only made this hole but has taken out the sensor..... Gearbox out time I think.
  :/
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jay140285

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 10:28:43 PM »

Opps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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gazjeep

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 01:06:59 PM »

Hope thats not as bad as it looks  :icon_sad:
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bgbazz

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 03:00:06 PM »

 :iagree: :iagree:....looks a bit iffy!
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 04:13:13 PM »

Only had it 2 months.... lol

I suspect the tourque converter is going to have some nice looking marks/ dents on it! :icon_rolleyes:
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eastryjeep

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 05:40:09 PM »

If you purchased from a dealer you should still have your statutory "Fit For Purpose" guarantee, unless it came as a trade sale that is.
If there is a torque converter hiding in that bell housing I would not be surprised if the whole box has had it, hydraulic pumps and solenoids really don't like loose bits of metal floating about the system.
If it was a private sale or one where you were not protected by the Sale of Goods Act, then I'd drain the box to see what comes out. If the torque converter has shed a few vanes there will be plenty of evidence of a catastrophic failure, there will be lots of loose bits  in there that will probably be damn sharp too, so swap out the whole box as a single unit, but make sure you flush the oil cooler before fitting another box. Oh and beware, they can be very heavy.
If, hopefully, you are covered by a warranty, seal it all up again, refill with filtered fluid (don't waste new) and give it back to the garage to fix.
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Dave69

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 06:59:26 AM »

replacement box from a breaker looks like the way forward, torque covertor might be the same route...price err could be bad but alot cheaper than new
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2014, 07:16:44 PM »

This was a private sale. So no warranty and so on. I will be undertaking this myself. :banghead:

Well, first I am going to remove the gearbox and see what's happened in there. I suspect this engine speed sensor was damaged by whatever made the hole causing my initial problem.

Gearbox operation was fine before the engine stopped starting, so I will treat the gearbox as a separate issue.

Does anybody know if the 3.1 has the 44re or 45rfe?   been pointed at both of these so i'm unsure. Also, is there a removable plate that can allow me to unbolt the TC from the flywheel? I guess that's on the back of the adapter plate on the engine side? I have noticed some ...lines on the bottom of the bell that to me indicate some sort of removable panel?


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carljh

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2014, 02:30:46 AM »

you have the 44re gearbox. 3 speed with overdrive
there is NO cover plate, there is a access hole in the adapter plate
behind the exhaust just below the joint with the turbo.
you need the exhaust out the way anyway to get the box out.
The service manual says you have to unbolt the converter but there is enough
room to get the box out with it still attached to the flex plate. you need a big
gearbox jack to keep things level tho
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eastryjeep

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2014, 01:37:25 PM »

Like I said before - drain the gearbox first, youll be amazed at how much fluid is in there and how much of a difference it makes.
You will have to remove the converter from the flex plate before reassembly or you'll never get the main pump drive to re-engage and it would just be too easy to damage the input shaft seal to be worth the risk.
If you do swap the box for one straight out of a scrapper, remember to fit new seals, filters etc with it on the wokbench.
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 10:53:30 AM »

Well, I ebayed a new Engine Speed sensor, it now starts and runs fine, so that's that issue out of the way.

Now I will work on the gearbox. Thank you all for your advice and the manuals! Will all prove helpful. I will post an update when there is one.
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2014, 11:10:18 AM »

One of my issues is the rear crank shaft seal leaking.

Does anybody know where I can source one for the 3.1? Ebay doesn't turn up much it seems.
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gazjeep

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2014, 06:50:25 PM »

Try rockauto

http://www.rockauto.co.uk/catalog/raframecatalog.php?ck[year_1994]=true&ck[mkt_US]=true&ck[mkt_EU]=true&ck[mkt_CA]=false&ck[mkt_MX]=false&ck[viewcurrency]=GBP&ck[ID]=22bff47c978c80f6a8806a85ba08e2c3&ck[idlist]=22bff47c978c80f6a8806a85ba08e2c3&ck[PHP_SESSION_ID]=kkcvuhtng1ijlujn2rm6gcjb21
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carljh

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2014, 03:20:11 AM »

there are 3 'O' rings and the main crank seal
Jeep Dealer part numbers:-
04720277AA (large 'O' ring crankshaft) £14
050140817AA (main crank seal) £60
04863833 (cam shaft end seal) £16
04720240 ('O' ring flywheel) £16

prices are from Jan 2013
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frosty 1

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2014, 09:44:27 AM »

in the picture of the gearbox, it looks like it has a crack in the bellhousing , or have you already mentioned that !!
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2014, 11:22:55 PM »

Yeah a number of people have mentioned the O rings. Guess I will order those too.

There is a crack in the bell housing, it's hard to see but it seems to go up the side of the housing quite a way. I'm considering a new bell housing from an old blown gearbox or something. But i'm wondering if it's possible to remove the bell housing on these, it doesn't look like it is. Perhaps a better idea to get a replacement gearbox for the right price?
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2014, 01:26:16 AM »

Box is down. Found out what the noise was in there.....  (attached). I think it has run away from it's thread, i'm wondering if this is where the oil is coming from.

So, new crank seal, o rings - All on http://www.jeepspares.com/ is seems, any good? Extremely cheap?!  Also can't see where these o rings go?


And a set of those alan headed bolts, not sure where I can get those?

Also, the torque converter...... I hear it has a one time use seal? So if I was to remove it from the bell housing, I would need a new seal. Is that correct?
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carljh

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2014, 03:28:38 AM »

here's the diagrams showing where the 'o' rings go
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2014, 11:05:21 AM »

here's the diagrams showing where the 'o' rings go

Thanks for that. Has made what needs to be done much clearer.
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thazlett

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2014, 07:49:09 PM »

Seals replaced  :greggmo:  Now I just need to put everything back together.

Some pictures of todays fun here: https://plus.google.com/photos/109171370247000170986/albums/6009272556132392689



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Dutch

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Re: Yet another 3.1 thread | Won't fire
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2014, 08:05:12 PM »

Tom,

I think you are an incredible brave man. Hope it all works when you put the lever in D

At least your assistant is better looking than mine ...... hang on ..... I haven't got an assistant. :icon_eek:

From the ex-vice president of the WTFIAS club

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Jeepless :-( 2006 Chrysler Crossfire Roadster 3.2 V6 - 1993 Yamaha FJ1200
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